Brown cited Woods'. If you're just joining us, my guests are Earlonne Woods and Nigel Poor, the co-hosts and co-producers of the podcast Ear Hustle, which features interviews with men incarcerated in San Quentin Prison about their daily lives and their personal stories. GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. ERIN: Oh, [expletive]. And so that's the point that I'm struck by - that human beings in a moment can do something with devastating consequences. He went up there. And he was always ready to help. Nigel is a professor of photography at California State University in Sacramento. And it was just like - it didn't even register with me. And it's all that some of the people that you choose to associate with do, you know? It didn't work out, unfortunately. I'm not doing this. SHAPIRO: When you said goodbye to him, were you crying? GROSS: Who - give us an example of somebody who you spoke to who had been a victim of a crime similar to the one that you committed that made you feel this, you know, sense of feeling bad for what you'd done. I'm Terry Gross, and this is FRESH AIR. And that was one of the things that I appreciated about Jerry Brown - especially everything he said in that clip that you played is the way people inside think. At the time, your brother and your nephew's mother, Tyra, were living what you describe as a life of crime together. Earlonne stands at a height of 5 ft 7 in ( Approx1.7 m). co-hosted by Woods and Nigel Poor, an artist and volunteer at San Quentin interviews men in the prison about their lives there. And at the end of November, Governor Jerry Brown commuted his sentence. How do we present this? There's a man that I worked with for quite a while that I was very fond of. POOR: While you're thinking, can I tell you some of the things that are just going through my mind about it? GROSS: Their brothers are the people who live in a similar world of fantasy as opposed to defining their brothers as being, you know, a skin color or ethnicity. Yes, he can come to my house. And Jerry Brown was then the governor of California. I've never had a problem. Is he a good co-host? That was something that was volunteered to me. GROSS: So something I found really interesting is that the group that is multicultural and not segregated by race or ethnicity is the group that's into, like - the nerds, the group that are into, like, sci-fi fantasy and stuff like that. POOR: You can't blend into what the guys inside wear. Woods helped create Ear Hustle while incarcerated at San Quentin State Prison. And to hear - to take that in and to not be afraid and to not judge a person but to, like, sit with it and think about it and think about this was 30 years ago, like I just - I had to do a lot of work around that. Nigel first went to San Quentin as a volunteer teaching photography. I'd rather deal with anyone, actually, as they are in front of me at that moment. Like, in the county jail, I was like, OK, I'm done with this side of life because even though our philosophy growing up was for death though - you know, meaning I'd rather be carried by six than judged by 12 - that was just the philosophy we had growing up, you know? Earlonne is busy reporting on re-entry stories and daily life for originally incarcerated people, while also documenting his own experiences. GROSS: Wait; so that means, like, you'd rather die than be E WOODS: Yes, yes. POOR: But I get to see his brother and catch him up on what you're doing. It's - it's - I think being in a position to step away from it all and look back and say, man, I was on something else. [2], Woods first went to prison at 17 for two concurrent convictions of kidnapping and robbing a drug dealer, and was released at 23. Those are my partners. I was questioning everything. I was on some - I would like to say other words, but I'm holding my (laughter) E WOODS: (Laughter) I'm on the radio. This piece has been updated with news of Woods hiring onto the podcast team. In terms of his romantic life, Park is happily married to his wife in South Korea. E WOODS: I like my colors bright these days. But I just - just took a course that was - seemed cool to me at the time. So it be at prison, I'm going to enjoy my day every day because at the end of the day, this is all I got, you know? Earlonne is Shala Woods brother. Woods was serving a 31-years-to-life sentence for attempted 2nd degree robbery due to a three-strikes law before having his sentence commuted in 2018. WOODS: It's unrealistic, but I think about just getting out of San Quentin, jumping in the water and swimming to my yacht and going around the world. Earlonne Woods is the co-creator, co-host, and co-producer of Ear Hustle (PRX & Radiotopia). And we used to do, like, healing circles. E WOODS: So on November 19, Tyler and his auntie and some other lady went to 7-Eleven to get a pack of cigarettes. He had served 21 years of a 31-years-to-life sentence. They fell in love just like anyone else would. He and Nigel Poor began the podcast Ear Hustle when Earlonne was a prisoner in San Quentin. E WOODS: It was devastating because I had - one, I had just talked to Tyler, like, probably the day before. But the - the problem is is that a lot of the sentences are a hundred years, 200 years, 300 years. It received 1,537 entries from 53 countries. GROSS: Earlonne, how did you learn how to keep your calm and live in the kind of confined situation you were in during the more than two decades that you were incarcerated? No, and I laugh because had Governor Brown probably not been the governor, I would still have 10 years of my sentence left. I felt like in Earlonne I found a true professional colleague. And I'm playing this because it's about knowing where the line is when you're interviewing prisoners and sometimes to have to ask something that's going to make them uncomfortable. HuffPost visited Woods at San Quentin earlier this year to discuss why he created the podcast. Co-founded by San Francisco Bay Area artist Nigel Poor alongside Earlonne Woods and Antwan Williams who were incarcerated at the time the podcast now tells stories from both inside prison and from the outside, post-incarceration. WOODSON: I used to work for the captain at CIW in the program office. While incarcerated, he received his GED, attended Coastline Community College, and completed many vocational programs. Let's get back to my interview with Earlonne Woods and Nigel Poor, the creators and hosts of the podcast Ear Hustle, featuring interviews with prisoners in San Quentin about their lives and what it's like to be incarcerated. And we just had such great conversations. [5] The show features interviews with inmates who share their stories and opinions on topics like cellmates, solitary confinement, race, morality, pets, religion, gangs, and family. We're able to share food. Los Angeles, CA. Nigel Poor and Earlonne Woods are gifted storytellers, and their ability to draw intimate, authentic stories out of others is extraordinary. They're waiting to get inside a club, and somebody from way across the street just shoot into the crowd, hit him in the heart, right? I told him that constantly. The podcast title, Ear Hustle, is prison slang for eavesdropping or being nosy. Earlonne Woods was born in the United States in 1972. Yeah - the butcher cutters. And then when I got out, I hadn't put any skill sets together, you know? Nigel first started going to San Quentin as a volunteer teaching photography. Here you guys are, poking and - poking and prodding. You - you - you always feel that you're better than getting killed, like you would never get killed. Earlonne, tell us a little more about what happened to Tyler, how he was killed. Poor's teaching work led her to a vast archive filled with photographs taken from life inside the prison that she began using in . Jerry Brown (D) has commuted the prison sentence of Earlonne Woods, whose hit podcast Ear Hustle explores life inside San Quentin State Prison. And it's just about - you know, they accept anybody, you know? Hae-soo married his non-celebrity bride on January 14, 2019, according to sources. Aaron Taylor. My guests are Earlonne Woods and Nigel Poor, the co-hosts and co-producers of Ear Hustle, a podcast featuring their interviews with men incarcerated in San Quentin. Even though you can't do nothing about your past, you just feel embarrassed about even going down that route, even victimizing anybody. He received a sentence of 31-years-to-life. You know what I mean? And you may be incarcerated 15, 20 years. Woods said he was only trying to be helpful, but was arrested by local sheriffs who did not question why he had lifted the gate; Woods subsequently had to appear in juvenile court. E WOODS: But I wouldn't have it no other way. Earlonnes sentence was recently commuted, but the two continue to share their experiences behind bars. POOR: And it's going to be a little bit hard. You know, when I was out for the two years 10 months, I raised Tyler, you know? It instead offers the even more illuminating dialogue of individual prisoners. He gave up his brother name. Woods, 47, was recently released from San Quentin State Prison after California Gov. And E WOODS: And of course I enjoy all the little moments. There's a story you did about how people like you from the outside who come in to volunteer - because you started at San Quentin volunteering teaching photography before you started doing the podcast Ear Hustle. China. Behind 'Ear Hustle,' The Podcast Made In Prison. And at one point, he revealed to me that he had raped quite a few women. When he was 15, he committed his first robbery alongside his brother, who had transitioned from selling drugs to robbing drug dealers. Don't be - whatever you do, don't play with no guns. Since the podcasts launch in 2017, its been downloaded, announcing the commutation, the governor echoed that thought, saying Woods has clearly shown that he is no longer the man he was when he committed this crime.. WOODSON: They told me that my son was murdered - well, killed. POOR: I'm so glad you asked about this. POOR: Earlonne described himself, and I described myself. Earlonne was both host and inmate, but he was released in November after his sentence was commuted by California Governor Jerry Brown. And it just puts you in a whole different space, you know? He works as a full-time producer, co-host, and co-creator with Ear Hustle at PRX alongside Nigel Poor. EARLONNE WOODS: Well, I just keep getting up every morning, you know, thankful that I have another day, thankful that I'm alive, you know? I don't know if it's a lake. You're more looking at what you're getting out of the situation. After 21 years in prison, Governor Brown the great governor of California decided that I served enough time, Woods said in the latest. And so we just started talking, and I realized that he was interested in thinking about how we could do interviews from more of an artistic perspective and not as journalists. But, as to being cool with it, it's what it is. E WOODS: So I'll give you example. I'm Terry Gross. Accuracy and availability may vary. Earlonne continues to co-host the show with Nigel. E WOODS: So I think that goes into, like, what they call politics in prison and where, you know, you may have certain prisons that it matters what you're in prison for like - and it's a difference on a race level. It was like a light switch. And they won't get that opportunity to present the person that they are today. It was other people telling, you know, their stories about being robbed or losing a child, losing a loved one. I was hoping I could talk to you a little bit about it. T WOODS: I received an email from one of my partners. And your brother is still in San Quentin. I was going to Nigel's house the other day, and I was an hour early. Woods is expected to be released on parole in the coming days, after serving 21 years of a 31-years-to-life sentence. But on the second term after - once you receive a life sentence, there's no guarantee that you'll ever be released from prison. So you'll never get the opportunity to be in front of people to present the person that you are today. But you look back, and you're looking at it like, I've wasted, like - I can say right now, I'm 47 years old. Before creating the podcast, Woods and Poor did interviews with inmates in San Quentin for public radio station KALW in San Francisco. And he used to come see me, you know, a lot. [12] On October 19, 2021, co-hosts Poor and Woods released a book on the podcast, This Is Ear Hustle. And, Nigel and Earlonne, I want to wish you good luck with the retooled version of Ear Hustle now that Earlonne is out. And it was one of them, I guess could you say, moments where you just feel embarrassed about your previous conduct. What are some of the ways you think you've changed over the years? You know, they playing with guns or whatever have you. GROSS: Tomorrow on FRESH AIR, my guest will be writer Sigrid Nunez. While incarcerated, he received his GED, attended Coastline Community College, and completed many vocational programs. My first prison term, I went to jail when I was 17. They grow up literally., In Browns letter announcing the commutation, the governor echoed that thought, saying Woods has clearly shown that he is no longer the man he was when he committed this crime., He has set a positive example, Brown wrote. Earlonne was born in 1972, in the United States. It's about a writer whose friend and former mentor kills himself. When I called my mother, she told me this, right? And I keep thinking, like, a week from now, Earlonne and I could be having dinner outside the prison together (laughter). But we knew that, you know, it's traditional for the governor to do these commutations right before Thanksgiving. POOR: I walked him to the gate; you know, wished him good luck. Due to the complex and time-consuming bureaucratic challenges associated with unusual prison activities, she decided that audio would be easier to manage than video. I'm pretty shy. E WOODS: Right. Redmond O'Neal is the son of American actor Ryan O'Neal and Farah Fawcett (an America. And I listen very carefully to how you talked about your relationship and how much you thought about it and how painful and joyous the whole experience was for you. And the officer came back, was like, you're too tall for that name. In March 2016, the Public Radio Exchange's Radiotopia network put out a call for new podcast ideas via an initiative called Podquest, with funding from the John S. and James L. Knight Foundation. Accuracy and availability may vary. He's able to call me collect. So I was nervous at first to go in because, I mean, my head was full of all the images that, you know, of - from bad TV, bad movies, bad media about what prison was going to be like. Earlonne Woods, co-host of the popular prison podcast Ear Hustle, had his sentence commuted by California Gov. All rights reserved. And they shot at Tyler, like, 40-something times. GROSS: And that was because - you got such a long sentence because one crime had you convicted on two counts, so that counted as two strikes. So now we're - I mean, we're friends, and we're colleagues. [3], Woods met artist and volunteer Nigel Poor, who was teaching photography at the film school. And, like a lot of inmates, he's been thinking about this moment for a long time. So there's a rule that pertains to the volunteers who come in, and they're not allowed to have, like, close relationships with the prisoners, anything that gets really intimate or emotional. He is 5 feet 7 inches tall ( Approx1.7 m). I don't know. I think it's about probably 20 people from there that call me collect. We don't really do stories about people's crimes at all. GROSS: So Tyler's father, your brother, is still in San Quentin during the final year that you were in San Quentin. You end thinking, like, here's this guy who's very self-actualized. Even after Woods is out on parole in Oakland, California, Ear Hustle said that it will continue, with Poor telling more tales from those inside San Quentin and Woods talking about the journey to re-enter society after years behind bars. [12][13][14] Since his commutation, Woods has become involved in campaigns to repeal California's three strikes laws. I think my mother told me she loved Jesus more than she loved me. Everybody we know live the same lifestyle, you know? In November 2018, Woods' sentence was commuted by California governor Jerry Brown. So I've technically only been free 20 years in my life, and, since I was 17, I've been free maybe three years all together. Earlonne Woods and Nigel Poor: This Is Ear Hustle Some might say that Nigel Poor and Earlonne Woods were destined to meet. GROSS: And you chose Earlonne. Earlonne Woods is the co-creator, co-host, and co-producer of Ear Hustle (PRX & Radiotopia). I mean, I guess I had a kind of low estimation of men and what they were like. And I always wore black. Like, you may have guys that are Hispanics or whites who, when they get to a certain prison, their race is like, let me see your paperwork. They said that, hey, when you went to jail when you were 17 - yeah, it was one time, but there was two convictions in that case. I used to sit there and ask God, "Like, why am I living if I have to die?" And I think at that age I was questioning God. And the assumption is that what you did at that moment is what you are today even though it's five years, 10 years, 20, 30 years later. Earlonne became busy reporting on re-entry stories and daily life for originally incarcerated people, while also documenting his own experiences. Like, what - why were we on this path, you know? Earlonne Woods is a popular American podcaster. I was a clerk. I'd still be sitting in San Quentin in a cell with my brother. What's it like to not care about the person who you're robbing or the person who might be killed by a stray bullet? Also Read: Earlonne Woods, . Despite the lack of physical or forensic evidence, Caramad Conley was convicted of conspiracy to commit first degree murder, two counts of first degree murder, and eleven counts of attempted Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information. He is a man of average stature. That stuff carries 17 years. Nigel Poor is a professor of photography at California State University in Sacramento. Earlonne Woods is the cocreator, coproducer, and cohost of the Pulitzer-nominated podcast Ear Hustle. And that's pretty much what I did. So now we can actually do that and even POOR: Hopefully go to other countries, too. And Earlonne just had his sentence commuted by Governor Jerry Brown in November after serving 21 years. E WOODS: He got a hell of a collection of vinyl. I pretty much raised Tyler from '95 to '97, when I got arrested. I'd rather not know. While incarcerated at California State Prison, Centinela, Woods saw a documentary about the film school at San Quentin State Prison, and applied to transfer to that prison. POOR: How do we tell stories and leave out that part? He also founded CHOOSE1, which aims to repeal the California . We get - I mean, it's - you know, it's - we're just E WOODS: You're able to go out now. He also founded CHOOSE1, which aims to repeal the California Three Strikes Law, the statute under . He had just became a paramedic or something. SHAPIRO: Like in a restaurant, at your house, any POOR: Yes. So you're interviewing a prisoner who - he and one of the volunteers fell in love, and so she stopped working there in any capacity, and they got married. POOR: Well, I would like to see more programs created that allow people inside and outside to work together as colleagues. You know, at that particular moment, in that mindset - like today, am I OK with that? We will update you once we have more information about Earlonnes marital status. GROSS: Yeah. NIGEL POOR: You know, E, you've been in prison 20 years. So, Nigel, when you decided you wanted to start, like, a interview series that started on KALW - the public - one of the public radio stations in San Francisco, and then it became a podcast - you wanted a co-host and co-producer who was incarcerated in San Quentin. He also founded CHOOSE1, which aims to repeal the California . (SOUNDBITE OF NOEL BONNEVIE'S "DAHIL SA'YO"). E WOODS: Yeah, so that's cool. And when it actually happened, it was a - it was an awakening in me, like, oh, I don't - why is we living this way, you know? Some might say that Nigel Poor and Earlonne Woods were destined to meet. In fact, when I walk through the yard, one of the things I really like is that people make eye contact. And when the men started filing into my class, I was like, oh, what have I done? E WOODS: Right. When Earlonne was in, I was probably in there 40-plus hours a week, and I'm not a masochist. [9], In a Rolling Stone article about the show, Tana Ganeva called it "a fascinating, harrowing and also deeply entertaining look into life on the inside that runs the full gamut of emotions. , after serving 21 years of a 31-years-to-life sentence. I've spent a total of 27 years in prison. Like, me personally, what I took away from a lot of things is that, yeah, I may have robbed a person for, let's say, $1. "[16] Quah contrasts standard prison narratives told entirely from an outsider's point of view with the interplay of insider and outsider perspectives provided by the hosts of Ear Hustle, with stories primarily told through Woods' and Williams' words and perspectives, and Poor in an active role adding "key narrative housekeeping". GROSS: That's the sound of the San Quentin prison door slamming as my guest Earlonne Woods was released in late November after being incarcerated there for seven years. He says, I need to speak with you. (SOUNDBITE OF STEFANO BOLLANI AND JESPER BODILSEN AND MORTEN LUND AND MARK TURNER AND BILL FRISELL'S "ALOBAR E KUDRA"). Others are typical and comfortable, never rising to celebrity status but supplying its partners with a contented existence. Did you give him a hug? Earlonne, I want to ask you about the final podcast you recorded in San Quentin, which was largely about your older brother, Trevor, and your nephew, Tyler. Once you commit your crime, people think thats what it is, but individuals change. But yeah, I can't. They're very polite. So I think as far as African-American culture in prison, I don't think nobody really cares why you're in prison. And it really wasn't until I got into the healing circle that I understood what it was like to be a survivor of crime because in these circles, you're sitting across from crime victims. They surrounded Tyler around a - at a apartment building, where he was trying to climb up to the roof. You start attending different self-help groups. E WOODS: I think - I was just tripping off - he was just peeling back one of the Beatles POOR: Oh, yeah. While incarcerated, he received his GED, attended Coastline Community College and completed many vocational trade programs. Not one bit, you know? I took their security from them to even walk out the house and feel safe, you know? By entering your email and clicking Sign Up, you're agreeing to let us send you customized marketing messages about us and our advertising partners. GROSS: And Nigel, just as a person who's constantly interacting with inmates at San Quentin, do you want to know what they're incarcerated for, what crime they were convicted of? So now we just have the opportunity to travel together, to do something like this together. I'm fine working with him now. - like, was with him pretty much every day. You are also agreeing to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. And I spend a lot of time in there. Poor, a professor of photography at CSU Sacramento, was volunteering with the Prison University Project at San Quentin State Prison when she met Woods, who was serving a 31-year-to-life sentence. This lady - her name was Claire. [1][2] Since his release, Woods has continued to co-host the podcast with Poor from outside prison, with Poor recording some parts in San Quentin with new co-host Rahsaan "New York" Thomas. While incarcerated, he received his GED, attended Coastline Community College and completed many vocational trade programs. And it was just - I just seen him slipping through my fingers because I wasn't there to snatch him up. So prison was more like, oh, hey, this is a place to go and continue your gang activity, continue your destructive behavior. The authoritative record of NPRs programming is the audio record. He became affiliated with a local Crips gang in high school, and began selling marijuana at 14, and later sold cocaine. He is a staff writer and podcast producer at KQED, as well as a graduate of UC Berkeley's School of Journalism. So they don't even have the opportunity to even go in front of the board to say, hey, look, for the last 21 years, I've changed, you know, because their board dates ain't till 2150, you know? Earlonne Woods, co-host of the popular prison podcast Ear Hustle, had his sentence commuted by California Gov. Presently, Earlonne has not mentioned any details concerning his parents. One is that you're going to get killed, and the other is that you'll eventually go to jail. 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